21 Hearing your future

Hearing your Future is the Coding your Future podcast which accompanies this guidebook. We talk to graduands and graduates of computer science, see figure 21.1, to hear more about their journey from student to professional. As part of their exit interview we ask them what happens after their graduation like the one shown in figure 21.23? What comes next?

Collage of Computer Scientist portraits re-used from LinkedIn and Github with permission. From left to right, top to bottom: thanks Raluca (chapter 34), Jason (chapter 33), Brian (chapter 32), Carmen (chapter 31), Sneha (chapter 30), Alice (chapter 28), Jonathan (chapter 29), Ivo (chapter 27), Ingy (chapter 26), Nadine (chapter 25), Pedro (chapter 24) and Amish (chapter 23). 🙏

Figure 21.1: Collage of Computer Scientist portraits re-used from LinkedIn and Github with permission. From left to right, top to bottom: thanks Raluca (chapter 34), Jason (chapter 33), Brian (chapter 32), Carmen (chapter 31), Sneha (chapter 30), Alice (chapter 28), Jonathan (chapter 29), Ivo (chapter 27), Ingy (chapter 26), Nadine (chapter 25), Pedro (chapter 24) and Amish (chapter 23). 🙏

21.1 From student to professional

Listen in to the episodes below, or read the transcripts, to find out more about how these students are coding their future:

  • What’s their story?
  • How did they get to where they are?
  • What obstacles have they faced and how did they overcome them?
  • What advice would they offer to their former selves and fellow students?
  • Where are they planning to going next?

Find out more by listening here or subscribing wherever you get your podcasts.

Your future is bright, your future needs hearing, so let’s start hearing your future.

21.2 Subscribing to your future

You can subscribe (for free!) by following one of the links below to your favourite podcast tool. Alternatively you can search for Coding your Future or Hearing your Future in your podcast application. You will see the logo shown in figure 21.2 when you find it.

If all else fails, you can cut-and-paste the raw rss feed URL below into the relevant settings on your podcast app:

http://feeds.libsyn.com/299189/rss
Hearing your future is the Coding your Future podcast. Subscribe and listen wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2. Hearing sketch by Visual Thinkery is licensed under CC-BY-NDHearing your future is the Coding your Future podcast. Subscribe and listen wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2. Hearing sketch by Visual Thinkery is licensed under CC-BY-NDHearing your future is the Coding your Future podcast. Subscribe and listen wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2. Hearing sketch by Visual Thinkery is licensed under CC-BY-ND

Figure 21.2: Hearing your future is the Coding your Future podcast. Subscribe and listen wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2. Hearing sketch by Visual Thinkery is licensed under CC-BY-ND

If you’d like to be a guest on the show, see section 21.16.

21.3 Episode 13: Steve Furber on Acorn Computers, and the Universities of Cambridge and Manchester

Interview with Steve Furber, see figure 21.3 and the transcript and show notes in chapter 22.

Steve Furber, picture re-used from linkedin.com/in/stevefurberSteve Furber, picture re-used from linkedin.com/in/stevefurberSteve Furber, picture re-used from linkedin.com/in/stevefurber

Figure 21.3: Steve Furber, picture re-used from linkedin.com/in/stevefurber

Listen to the episode by clicking Play ▶️ below, or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2.

21.4 Episode 12: Amish Shah on imago, Bloomberg and Palantir

Interview with Amish Shah, see figure 21.4 and the transcript and show notes in chapter 23.

Amish Shah linkedin.com/in/amish-shah. Picture re-used from github profile shown in figure 11.12 with permission, thanks Amish.Amish Shah linkedin.com/in/amish-shah. Picture re-used from github profile shown in figure 11.12 with permission, thanks Amish.Amish Shah linkedin.com/in/amish-shah. Picture re-used from github profile shown in figure 11.12 with permission, thanks Amish.

Figure 21.4: Amish Shah linkedin.com/in/amish-shah. Picture re-used from github profile shown in figure 11.12 with permission, thanks Amish.

Listen to the episode by clicking Play ▶️ below, or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2.

21.5 Episode 11: Pedro on startups, Nomura and Amazon Web Services

Interview with Pedro Sousa, see figure 21.5 and the transcript and show notes in chapter 24.

Pedro Marques Sousa. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/pedro-marques-sousa with permission, thanks Pedro.Pedro Marques Sousa. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/pedro-marques-sousa with permission, thanks Pedro.Pedro Marques Sousa. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/pedro-marques-sousa with permission, thanks Pedro.

Figure 21.5: Pedro Marques Sousa. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/pedro-marques-sousa with permission, thanks Pedro.

Listen to the episode by clicking Play ▶️ below, or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2.

21.6 Episode 10: Nadine Abdelhalim on Imago and Arm

Interview with Nadine Abdelhalim, see figure 21.6 and the transcript and show notes in chapter 25.

Nadine Abdelhalim. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/nadineabdelhalim with permission, thanks Nadine.Nadine Abdelhalim. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/nadineabdelhalim with permission, thanks Nadine.Nadine Abdelhalim. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/nadineabdelhalim with permission, thanks Nadine.

Figure 21.6: Nadine Abdelhalim. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/nadineabdelhalim with permission, thanks Nadine.

Listen to the episode by clicking Play ▶️ below, or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2.

21.7 Episode 9: Ingy Abdelhalim on IN3, Imago and McKinsey

Interview with Ingy Abdelhalim, see figure 21.7 and the transcript and show notes in chapter 26.

Ingy Abdelhalim. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/ingyabdehalim with permission, thanks Ingy.Ingy Abdelhalim. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/ingyabdehalim with permission, thanks Ingy.Ingy Abdelhalim. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/ingyabdehalim with permission, thanks Ingy.

Figure 21.7: Ingy Abdelhalim. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/ingyabdehalim with permission, thanks Ingy.

Listen to the episode by clicking Play ▶️ below, or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2.

21.8 Episode 8: Ivaylo (Ivo) Iliev on Amazon Web Services

Interview with Ivaylo (Ivo) Iliev, see figure 21.8 and the transcript and show notes in chapter 27.

Ivaylo Iliev. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/ivaylo-iliev3 with permission, thanks Ivo.Ivaylo Iliev. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/ivaylo-iliev3 with permission, thanks Ivo.Ivaylo Iliev. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/ivaylo-iliev3 with permission, thanks Ivo.

Figure 21.8: Ivaylo Iliev. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/ivaylo-iliev3 with permission, thanks Ivo.

Listen to the episode by clicking Play ▶️ below, or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2.

21.9 Episode 7: Jonathan Cowling on moneysupermarket and Infinity Works

Interview with Jonathan Cowling, see figure 21.9 and the transcript and show notes in chapter 29.

Jonathan Cowling. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/jonathan-cowling with permission, thanks Jonathan.Jonathan Cowling. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/jonathan-cowling with permission, thanks Jonathan.Jonathan Cowling. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/jonathan-cowling with permission, thanks Jonathan.

Figure 21.9: Jonathan Cowling. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/jonathan-cowling with permission, thanks Jonathan.

Listen to the episode by clicking Play ▶️ below, or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2.

21.10 Episode 6: Alice Păcuraru on Barclays, THG and Publicis Sapient

Interview with Alexandra (Alice) Păcuraru, see figure 21.10 and the transcript and show notes in chapter 28.

Alice Păcuraru. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/alexandra-pacuraru with permission, thanks Alice.Alice Păcuraru. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/alexandra-pacuraru with permission, thanks Alice.Alice Păcuraru. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/alexandra-pacuraru with permission, thanks Alice.

Figure 21.10: Alice Păcuraru. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/alexandra-pacuraru with permission, thanks Alice.

Listen to the episode by clicking Play ▶️ below, or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2.

21.11 Episode 5: Sneha Kandane on Matillion

Interview with Sneha Kandane, see figure 21.11 and the transcript and show notes in chapter 30.

Sneha Kandane. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/sneha-kandane-931346183 with permission, thanks Sneha.Sneha Kandane. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/sneha-kandane-931346183 with permission, thanks Sneha.Sneha Kandane. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/sneha-kandane-931346183 with permission, thanks Sneha.

Figure 21.11: Sneha Kandane. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/sneha-kandane-931346183 with permission, thanks Sneha.

Listen to the episode by clicking Play ▶️ below, or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2.

21.12 Episode 4: Carmen Faura Práxedes on Disney & McKinsey

Interview with Carmen Faura Práxedes, see figure 21.12 and the transcript and show notes in chapter 31

Carmen Faura Práxedes. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/carmen-faura with permission, thanks Carmen.Carmen Faura Práxedes. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/carmen-faura with permission, thanks Carmen.Carmen Faura Práxedes. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/carmen-faura with permission, thanks Carmen.

Figure 21.12: Carmen Faura Práxedes. Picture reused from linkedin.com/in/carmen-faura with permission, thanks Carmen.

Listen to the episode by clicking Play ▶️ below, or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2.

21.13 Episode 3: Brian Yim Tam on Disney+ and Wise

Interview with Brian Yim Tam, see figure 21.13 and the transcript and show notes in chapter 32

Brian Yim Tam. Picture reused with permission from linkedin.com/in/byt411, thanks Brian.Brian Yim Tam. Picture reused with permission from linkedin.com/in/byt411, thanks Brian.Brian Yim Tam. Picture reused with permission from linkedin.com/in/byt411, thanks Brian.

Figure 21.13: Brian Yim Tam. Picture reused with permission from linkedin.com/in/byt411, thanks Brian.

Listen to the episode by clicking Play ▶️ below, or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2.

21.14 Episode 2: Jason Ozuzu on Morgan Stanley, Fitbit and Google

Interview with Jason Ozuzu, see figure 21.14 and the transcript in chapter 33.

Jason Ozuzu. Picture reused with permission from linkedin.com/in/jason-ozuzu-a87049173, thanks Jason.Jason Ozuzu. Picture reused with permission from linkedin.com/in/jason-ozuzu-a87049173, thanks Jason.Jason Ozuzu. Picture reused with permission from linkedin.com/in/jason-ozuzu-a87049173, thanks Jason.

Figure 21.14: Jason Ozuzu. Picture reused with permission from linkedin.com/in/jason-ozuzu-a87049173, thanks Jason.

Listen to the episode by clicking Play ▶️ below, or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2.

21.15 Episode 1: Raluca Cruceru on Koderly and CERN

Interview with Raluca Cruceru, see figure 21.15 and the transcript and show notes in chapter 34

Raluca Cruceru is a software engineer at CERN, standing here in front of the experiment she works on: A Large Ion Collider Experiment (ALICE) part of the Large Hadron Collider at CERN, see careers.cern/Raluca. Picture reused with permission from linkedin.com/in/raluca-cruceru, thanks Raluca.Raluca Cruceru is a software engineer at CERN, standing here in front of the experiment she works on: A Large Ion Collider Experiment (ALICE) part of the Large Hadron Collider at CERN, see careers.cern/Raluca. Picture reused with permission from linkedin.com/in/raluca-cruceru, thanks Raluca.Raluca Cruceru is a software engineer at CERN, standing here in front of the experiment she works on: A Large Ion Collider Experiment (ALICE) part of the Large Hadron Collider at CERN, see careers.cern/Raluca. Picture reused with permission from linkedin.com/in/raluca-cruceru, thanks Raluca.

Figure 21.15: Raluca Cruceru is a software engineer at CERN, standing here in front of the experiment she works on: A Large Ion Collider Experiment (ALICE) part of the Large Hadron Collider at CERN, see careers.cern/Raluca. Picture reused with permission from linkedin.com/in/raluca-cruceru, thanks Raluca.

Listen to the episode by clicking Play ▶️ below, or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, see section 21.2.

21.16 Episode \(x\): it could be YOU!

YOUR FUTURE WANTS YOU: Join your future! If you’d like to be interviewed for the show, get in touch, see figure 21.16. Besides interviewing current graduates, I’m interested in speaking to former graduates, especially if you:

  • completed a placement or internship(s) as an undergraduate or postgraduate
  • consider yourself to be part of a minority or under-represented group

I’m also interested in speaking to people who graduated a while back, not just this years graduates, but any back to 1968. 🎓 (Brackenbury 2005)

Your country future wants YOU. 🫵 Join your future. If you are a former student of Computer Science who’d like to appear on the show, get in touch. I’m especially interested to hear from students who did internships or placements before they graduated in Computer Science. Picture adapted from an original public domain image of the Lord Kitchener Wants You poster by Alfred Leete on Wikimedia Commons at w.wiki/3xvXYour country future wants YOU. 🫵 Join your future. If you are a former student of Computer Science who’d like to appear on the show, get in touch. I’m especially interested to hear from students who did internships or placements before they graduated in Computer Science. Picture adapted from an original public domain image of the Lord Kitchener Wants You poster by Alfred Leete on Wikimedia Commons at w.wiki/3xvXYour country future wants YOU. 🫵 Join your future. If you are a former student of Computer Science who’d like to appear on the show, get in touch. I’m especially interested to hear from students who did internships or placements before they graduated in Computer Science. Picture adapted from an original public domain image of the Lord Kitchener Wants You poster by Alfred Leete on Wikimedia Commons at w.wiki/3xvX

Figure 21.16: Your country future wants YOU. 🫵 Join your future. If you are a former student of Computer Science who’d like to appear on the show, get in touch. I’m especially interested to hear from students who did internships or placements before they graduated in Computer Science. Picture adapted from an original public domain image of the Lord Kitchener Wants You poster by Alfred Leete on Wikimedia Commons at w.wiki/3xvX

If you’re coming on the show, please have a think about the following questions which we ask all our guests:

  1. 🎸 What’s your story, coding glory see section 21.16.1
  2. ✊🏽 Minority report (optional) see section 21.16.2
  3. 👑 You are the next Vice Chancellor (optional) see section 21.16.3
  4. 🍿 One tune, one podcast, one book, one film: see section 21.16.4
  5. ⏱ Time traveller, see section 21.16.5

21.16.1 What’s your story, coding glory?

“All your dreams are made, when you’re chained to the tracker and the software trade… What’s your story, coding glory?”

What’s your origin story, see figure 21.17?

  • What’s your name and where do you come from? (C. Black 1985)
  • Do you remember the first time? What was your first computer? Why did you choose to study computer science?
  • Which organisation were you employed by, why and how did you choose them
  • What were the main obstacles you faced finding employment and how did you overcome them?
  • Tell us about your roles and responsibilities within the organisation
  • How did you find the job and what other jobs did they look for?
  • What were the main things you learned on placement?
  • What was the most enjoyable or rewarding part of working for your employer?
  • What did you do for your final year project?
  • If you graduated previously, what has been your career path to date?
  • What comes next?
(What’s your Story) Morning Coding Glory? (Gallagher 1995). CC BY portrait of Noel Gallagher by alterna2.com on Wikimedia Commons w.wiki/3bimy adapted using the Wikipedia app

Figure 21.17: (What’s your Story) Morning Coding Glory? (Gallagher 1995). CC BY portrait of Noel Gallagher by alterna2.com on Wikimedia Commons w.wiki/3bimy adapted using the Wikipedia app

So what’s your story, coding glory? 🎸

21.16.2 Minority report

This is an optional question taken from the title of the Philip K. Dick novel The Minority Report and subsequent film adaptation, see figure 21.18. Minority report asks our guests:

  • Do you consider yourself to be a member of an under-represented, minority or otherwise marginalised group?
  • If so which one(s) are you happy to discuss, see section 2.2.1?
  • What has your experience been of being in a minority at University and in the workplace?
  • How can the teaching and learning of computer science be made more equitable, diverse and inclusive for members of your minority group(s)?
  • What else can universities do to make campuses more welcoming to members of your minority group(s)?
  • What more can employers do to make workplaces more welcoming to members of your minority group(s)?
Are you in a minority? Inspired by the book (Dick 1956) and its film adaptation (Spielberg 2002), we’ll hear from some of our minorities. The Minority Report is short story by Philip K. Dick first published by Fantastic Universe magazine in 1956. What is it like being in minority and how could universities and employers be more welcoming to your minority group(s)? Public domain image of magazine cover by Ed Emshwiller via Wikimedia Commons w.wiki/5Swn adapted using the Wikipedia app

Figure 21.18: Are you in a minority? Inspired by the book (Dick 1956) and its film adaptation (Spielberg 2002), we’ll hear from some of our minorities. The Minority Report is short story by Philip K. Dick first published by Fantastic Universe magazine in 1956. What is it like being in minority and how could universities and employers be more welcoming to your minority group(s)? Public domain image of magazine cover by Ed Emshwiller via Wikimedia Commons w.wiki/5Swn adapted using the Wikipedia app

If you’re in a minority that you’re happy to talk about, do you have anything you’d like to report? ✊🏽

21.16.3 You are the next Vice Chancellor

Congratulations, the board of governors and senate of the University of Manchester have just appointed you their next leader where you’ll take over from the current Vice Chancellor (VC) Nancy Rothwell, shown in figure 21.19. Nancy has served as VC since 2010, and will step down in 2024, the 200th anniversary of the foundation of the University of Manchester. (Unian 2014) As VC, you now have responsibility for:

  • 11,000 staff
  • 40,000 students
  • a global network of over 500,000 alumni.

You’ll also take over as chair of the russellgroup.ac.uk. Since this is an optional question, you can dodge this bullet if you’d rather not attempt to answer it.

Professor Nancy Rothwell is Vice Chancellor (VC) of the University of Manchester. If you were VC, what would you change about how teaching at the University? CC BY portrait of Nancy Rothwell by Manchester University Maths on Wikimedia Commons w.wiki/6WjS adapted using the Wikipedia app

Figure 21.19: Professor Nancy Rothwell is Vice Chancellor (VC) of the University of Manchester. If you were VC, what would you change about how teaching at the University? CC BY portrait of Nancy Rothwell by Manchester University Maths on Wikimedia Commons w.wiki/6WjS adapted using the Wikipedia app

So if you were the new incoming VC (rather than Duncan Ivison), what would you change about the University of Manchester (and Universities generally) to improve the teaching and learning? What would be your first task to make a difference to students like yourself? 👑

21.16.4 One tune, one podcast, one book and one film

We love our books, music, films and podcasts. This love is expressed in gratuitous popular culture references throughout Coding your Future. Critics say the musical playlists in chapter 17 are clogged up with:

From the Beatles to the Rolling Stones, U2 to Fleetwood Mac, Oasis to Guns N’ Roses and Jimi Hendrix to Queen: the Dad-rock playlist shamelessly revels in classic but bygone glories of yesteryear. (Mitchum 2019; Rogers 2008) Public domain portrait of Mick Fleetwood, Christine McVie, John McVie, Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham (Fleetwood Mac) on Wikimedia Commons w.wiki/6hxg adapted using the Wikipedia app

Figure 21.20: From the Beatles to the Rolling Stones, U2 to Fleetwood Mac, Oasis to Guns N’ Roses and Jimi Hendrix to Queen: the Dad-rock playlist shamelessly revels in classic but bygone glories of yesteryear. (Mitchum 2019; Rogers 2008) Public domain portrait of Mick Fleetwood, Christine McVie, John McVie, Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham (Fleetwood Mac) on Wikimedia Commons w.wiki/6hxg adapted using the Wikipedia app

So, can you recommend a:

  • TUNE! One tune to rejuvenate or internationlise our playlists. Why is it important to you?
    • Perhaps it makes you relax, feel happy or comforted?
    • Maybe it reminds you of special people, a special time or special place in your life?
    • We’ll add it to The Coder’s Playlist in section 17.1
  • PODCAST: One podcast you’ve enjoyed that you’d recommend people listen or subscribe to 🎧
  • BOOK: One book (or audiobook) you’ve enjoyed, either fiction or non-fiction 📕
  • FILM: One film we’ve got to go and watch right now, old or new 🍿

21.16.5 Time traveller

Do you wish that you knew what you know now, when you were younger? Just like Ronnie Lane, Ronnie Wood and Rod Stewart, we all probably feel that way sometimes, see figure 21.21. So, if you could travel back in time to meet the younger you, just starting University:

  • What would you tell your former self, now that you are older and wiser?
  • What would you tell current students to help them get the most of their preciously short time at University?
Poor old grandad I laughed at all his words but I wish that I knew what I know now, when I was younger, see Ooh La La. (Lane and Wood 1973) Do you wish that you knew what you know now, when you were younger? What would you tell your younger self about getting the most from University life?

Figure 21.21: Poor old grandad I laughed at all his words but I wish that I knew what I know now, when I was younger, see Ooh La La. (Lane and Wood 1973) Do you wish that you knew what you know now, when you were younger? What would you tell your younger self about getting the most from University life?

What do you know now, that you wish you’d known when you were younger? ⏱

21.17 Everything I had to know, I heard it on my radio

Let’s leave the last words on podcasting to The Buggles and Queen. Podcasting is an evolution and mutation of radio but did video kill the radio star? (Downes, Horn, and Woolley 1979) What if everything you had to know, you could hear it on your radio, see figure 21.22? Tune in to find out. 📻

All we hear is Radio Ga Ga but everything I had to know, I heard it on my radio. So don’t become some background noise, a backdrop to the girls and boys, who just don’t know and just don’t care and just complain when you’re not there. Radio. (Taylor 1984)

Figure 21.22: All we hear is Radio Ga Ga but everything I had to know, I heard it on my radio. So don’t become some background noise, a backdrop to the girls and boys, who just don’t know and just don’t care and just complain when you’re not there. Radio. (Taylor 1984)

I’d sit alone and watch your light, my only friend through teenage nights. Everything I had to know I heard it on my radio. (Taylor 1984)

21.18 Summarising your hearing

Too long, didn’t read (TL;DR)? Here’s a summary:

Your future is bright, your future needs listening. Listening to your future, will help you code your future.

Silly hat? ✅ Silly frock? ✅ Wearing your best outfit? ✅ It must be time for graduation! What comes next? Hearing your future interviews current and former students to find out more about how they got to where they are and where they are going to next. Picture of obligatory hat throwing outside the Samuel Alexander building in 2018. Photobombing by Gavin Brown 🎓

Figure 21.23: Silly hat? ✅ Silly frock? ✅ Wearing your best outfit? ✅ It must be time for graduation! What comes next? Hearing your future interviews current and former students to find out more about how they got to where they are and where they are going to next. Picture of obligatory hat throwing outside the Samuel Alexander building in 2018. Photobombing by Gavin Brown 🎓

In Hearing your Future, you can listen to students about how they are Coding their Future. We hope you’ll be inspired and encouraged by their stories to help you on your journey.

21.18.1 Thanks Jez

This podcast is inspired and supported by Jez Lloyd, host, producer, director, editor, sound engineer and mastermind of the excellent CS@Manchester podcast, see figure 21.24. Thanks Jez! 🙏

This podcast has also borrowed ideas from the BBC. If it were broadcast on Radio 4, it would be a cross between Desert Island Discs and The Life Scientific. (Al-Khalili 2011) Thanks to Jim Al-Khalili, Lauren Laverne, Sue Lawley, Kirsty Young, Michael Parkinson and Roy Plumley for the inspiration. (Plomley et al. 1942)

Figure 21.24: The CS@Manchester podcast was produced and hosted by Jez Lloyd and ran from 2015 to 2020. This podcast, Hearing your future, is following in all 38 of its audible footsteps, see podomatic.com/podcasts/cs-engagement